Author Topic: Offense  (Read 3020 times)

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Offline mst3m1

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Offense
« on: October 21, 2013, 09:27:59 PM »
It makes me ill.  If we throw an incomplete pass on first down it is an undisputable fact we will run AD up the middle on 2nd and 10.  And what's up with Musgrave's obsession with throwing bootleg passes to the left with right handed throwing QBs? 
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Offline Simmion

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Re: Offense
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2013, 08:23:16 PM »
Preaching to the choir, seriously with the roll outs to the left.  Freeman can handle them, but when he was doing it 4 times a game with weak armed Ponder, I was literally screaming at the TV.

I am sort of torn, I hate the slow approach to our offense, yet the first 4 games we averaged 30 points a game.  I have always felt this team should be a run n gun team that passes to set up the run to wear the teams late with AP on his way to 150/game. In stead of this run on 1st and 2nd and throw a 9 and out on 3rd down.  But Freeman is the first QB we've had that is capable of running that because of his deep accuracy (the giants game should be taken with a grain of salt, he is actually pretty damn accurate on his deep passes).

It's the same with the Gophers, granted they beat NW, but in the first quarter they did two inside runs, and on 3rd and long they ran a freaking draw... like "This will get them. They will totally think we are passing"  No common sense that teams need to be beaten in the passing game before even thinking of running a draw.

And thats the bottom line, I feel the coaching plan do the "trick" plays before they are actually set up for.  Like the draws or play actions. 

Another bottom line is the OL needs to freaking run block like they can.  It's been pathetic.  Is it time to start some new hungry rookie guards,  we drafted two of them.  Both which I think are nasty NFL types.  Charlie and Fusco IMO are pedestrian at best.

You know, I've personally flown over 194 missions and I was shot down every one.  Heh, come to think of it.  I've never landed a plane in my life.

Offline CMC18V

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Re: Offense
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2013, 06:42:14 PM »
Quote
It's the same with the Gophers

Thanks for reminding how much worse my life could be.  facepalm At least I'm not a Gopher fan.  LMAOA
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Offline BtlsFan

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Re: Offense
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2013, 11:41:53 AM »
MSTM - Offense? I'm in favor of having one!! I just wish the Vikings coaches felt the same way! We need a different QB, #7 is not ever going to get it done! Freeman may be OK, but he needs to get worked into the system and develop a chemistry with our current players. Our guard play has been bad, particularly Fusco. The offensive line woes could be solved by a QB that can get rid of the ball quickly, but it still needs to improve in the run blocking. Why don't they throw Rudolph more 10-15 yard passes? Even #7 can throw the ball 15 yards! There are so many good players on this team, but they don't play as a team and individuals playing well does not equate to the team playing well. We need a coach that can make this group want to play together and sacrifice for each other. We don't have anyone on the coaching staff that can do that!

Skol Vikings!!!
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Offline Hutch

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Re: Offense
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2013, 12:43:38 PM »
If we assume that Frazier and his staff are gone then many changes are coming on both sides of the ball. The big question that will be asked by the new coaches and by fans too is......do we really want to build the offense around AD and commit a lot of dollars to him ??? We are up there cap wise and a mess so changes need to happen. I'm not sure if Freeman is the answer or not but we do owe it to him and the team to find out. We all know Cassel and Ponder are not so say good bye to both of them. Allen is good as gone unless he takes a huge cut in pay...not likely. Williams is gone too. Time to bring in new schemes with new coaches and truely rebuild. That said....it's time to let AD walk.....we can't afford him and we can't afford to design another offense around him. I hope they let him go and resign Gerhart. Gerhart is not going to have many huge plays but he is a an every down back the runs hard up the middle and outside, is a solid pass catcher and blocks well.....he's not spectacular at anything thing but real solid at everything you need at the position. Ad in a back from the draft like a Darren Sproles or find another Harvin type player you can operate from a number of spots and we can game plan for a number of defenses.

AD and Allen have been fan favorites but it's time to move on and go in another direction with a majority of our positions and schemes IMO.

Offline MaryJane

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Re: Offense
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2013, 02:27:58 PM »
i dont see how we cant afford ad when we could easily get rid of allen,williams,cassel,freeman,carlson,and simpson.....and wouldnt be any worse imo..
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Offline MaryJane

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Re: Offense
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2013, 02:32:04 PM »
and the offense is fine besides the QB and OC so idk why yyou are discussing a offense thats needs to rebuild when all we need is a coach and a QB?...
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Offline MaryJane

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Re: Offense
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2013, 02:38:56 PM »
Its easy cut allen,williams,simpson,carlson,freeman,cassel. Then fire our HC! Bring in a new DC wth a different scheme. Fire our OC bring in a new OC with the same scheme! Go get a few guys in FA to fit our DCs scheme! Draft A QB first and Defense the rest of the draft....playoff here we come..
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Offline mst3m1

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Re: Offense
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2013, 06:11:33 PM »
Bee-Attles fan, I agree about the lack of seem route passes to Rudolph.  It's completely incomprehensible they don't use the heck out of him.  Our coordinators appear to be in over their heads and they will doom Frazier.  But then down by 18 after a TD against GB with 5 minutes to play he sends in the PAT team?  What is up with that?  You're still down by 3 scores doing that.  Then he kicks an onside kick?  Why bother after quitting with the PAT? 

Hutch, I agree about AD.  We've had his best years and what fun they were watching him but we're not in position to pay him in the position our team is in.  Lots of new faces next year and we should be in position to draft a top available QB.  If Spielman effs that up by being wowed by practice throws and a sit down meeting then he should be done.     
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Offline MaryJane

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Re: Offense
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2013, 06:35:58 PM »
i dont understand why in the heck yall wanna get rid of ap... this team is not as far our as you think its is!!! we need what 1 player on offense!!! a couple FA moves and a good draft on defense and we are in this thing!!! yall are crazy our team is banged up right now! our starting corner, safetys, and outside linebacker and who knows who else..calm down ... facepalm
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Offline mst3m1

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Re: Offense
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2013, 07:40:09 PM »
I get you but is it really worth the investment?  We probably won't be good so him winning a few extra games will not help us.  We have lots of holes and a couple could be filled with his paycheck.  It would be a win win.  He goes to a competitor and we get a decent chance at a CB and LB.  His position offers less of an ability to overcome defencies in other positions more than most.  You have to spend your money wisely.   
"Apes don't read philosophy." "Yes they do, Otto. They just don't understand it."

Offline SithEvolution

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Re: Offense
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2013, 07:49:58 PM »
i dont understand why in the heck yall wanna get rid of ap... this team is not as far our as you think its is!!! we need what 1 player on offense!!! a couple FA moves and a good draft on defense and we are in this thing!!! yall are crazy our team is banged up right now! our starting corner, safetys, and outside linebacker and who knows who else..calm down ... facepalm
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Offline MaryJane

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Re: Offense
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2013, 07:35:54 AM »
Funny thing is yall cant even buy a superbowl soooo..........................

Know your role!!!!
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Offline MaryJane

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Re: Offense
« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2013, 07:57:57 AM »
I get you but is it really worth the investment?  We probably won't be good so him winning a few extra games will not help us.  We have lots of holes and a couple could be filled with his paycheck.  It would be a win win.  He goes to a competitor and we get a decent chance at a CB and LB.  His position offers less of an ability to overcome defencies in other positions more than most.  You have to spend your money wisely.   

First off we would be 4-3 5-2 with a QB even with our banged up handicapped bad defense!And it wouldnt be win win. You dont trade the MVP of the NFL!! and soon to be HOF and 1 of the best backs of all time!!! When we are witnessing what the chiefs are doing this season! What makes you guys think that AD is gonna regress in his 30s! When he just came back off a acl mcl tear in under a year and ran for 2000+ yards!! i dont know what our cap situation is next season but when we get rid of allen and slide Griffen in his spot! then we get rid of williams and slide floyd in his spot! imo we are no worse,we just got younger,and for less money!!Then we get rid of 2 QBs which saves money and possible get rid of simpson!!!..carlson... i dont get it....Our offense is set! with a QB!! thats it!!! theres no need to rebuild whats already built! Now moving on to the defense what do we need...lets see we have griffen and robinson on the ends floyd in his 2nd year in the middle so we need a DT. LBs we have greenway at OLB Henderson in the middle.. his first year!!! and i think.. (think) hes leading us in tackles...ok we need a OLB. CB we have cook who is banged up this year on 1 side and a secound year Rhodes on the other! we could possibly go get a CB! at S we got smith on 1 side and a hard hitting sanford on the other and hes banged up..i mean we got FA and the draft to get a DT OLB CB QB...depth might be a concern at some positions though...
« Last Edit: November 01, 2013, 08:02:09 AM by MaryJane »
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Offline Hutch

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Re: Offense
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2013, 12:13:33 PM »
I get you but is it really worth the investment?  We probably won't be good so him winning a few extra games will not help us.  We have lots of holes and a couple could be filled with his paycheck.  It would be a win win.  He goes to a competitor and we get a decent chance at a CB and LB.  His position offers less of an ability to overcome defencies in other positions more than most.  You have to spend your money wisely.   

Hit the nail on the head with that one .....It's been lots of fun watching AD but time to move on building a team that'll hopefully compete for a Super Bowl.

I like your optimism Mary Jane but personally I think we are 3 coaches, scheme changes, player changes and atleast 2 years developing all that so we can hopefully have some chemistry in place for when we hit the new Stadium.

AD is one of the best all time RB's and been unreal to watch but will he and an offense geared to him get us to the Super Bowl ? I just don't see it and like mstm1 said...his cap number can be used to fill a number of holes elsewhere.


Offline Simmion

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Re: Offense
« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2013, 02:50:18 PM »
I am on the same boat as MJ on this.  Teams can turn around quick enough to keep AP.  The one thing that will help our defense (edit, i should say team overal) the most is keep the time of possession on our side.  Vikings are dead last in that category.  Stabilize that first.  Switch the defensive schemes, help the 3rd down conversions allowed which we are dead last in.  (KC is first in that category BTW 8-0). 

That being said.  I wouldn't be pissed if we traded AP, that would be the final chip of a full reboot.  But I think this team can do some magic getting J. Allen, and Williams off the books. 
« Last Edit: November 01, 2013, 02:56:15 PM by Simmion »
You know, I've personally flown over 194 missions and I was shot down every one.  Heh, come to think of it.  I've never landed a plane in my life.

Offline MaryJane

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Re: Offense
« Reply #16 on: November 01, 2013, 03:28:37 PM »
ok well tell me this...who are we gonna get thats gonna fill APs contract and make the same difference that he does..? i just dont see anybody on the defensive side of the ball thats gonna make more of a impact then ap makes on the offensive side of the ball...jared allen is a perfect example...
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Offline MaryJane

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Re: Offense
« Reply #17 on: November 01, 2013, 03:37:55 PM »
and hutch im not from minn. so i wouldnt know but how do you trade your franchise player at a more worse time! lol and the reason why you cant see our offense geared through ap get us to a superbowl is because we havnt had a QB! Dont yall at least think we need to wait untill 6 or 7 games into next season before we trade ap to see what a real qb can do? i dont even know what you could even get for ap? maybe a first by a good team which would really be a 2nd...maybe they throw in a third which would be a 4th lol idk if yall are right and you dont need a franchise RB to get to the superbowl what do you think we are gonna get for him...lol
« Last Edit: November 01, 2013, 03:47:50 PM by MaryJane »
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Offline MaryJane

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Re: Offense
« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2013, 03:51:40 PM »
i almost cried when we traded harvin .. if we trade ap...trade me...
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Offline MaryJane

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Re: Offense
« Reply #19 on: November 01, 2013, 04:05:26 PM »
i respect yalls opinion but i just cant understand it...even with our bad defense and horrible coaches.. A QB would hide 90% of it..maybe not a good thing..maybe this year is good for us in that way...but imo we are not nearly far enough off to trade ap...
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Offline Hutch

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Re: Offense
« Reply #20 on: November 01, 2013, 05:43:24 PM »
I was pissed too when they traded Harvin.....He was a player IMO you build an offense around. Patterson is a player I hope they use a lot more in the coming years.

It's not whether you like AD or not.....the guy is the ultimate football player, great attitude and what being competitive and team player is all about. The thing is unless we get a lead and keep games close AD's value drops dramatically....you never hear how a defense takes away another teams passing game do you ??? The league has made it way too easy for the QB and WR's and that is just the way it is and seems will be for a while now. IMO we need to develope an offense that can adjust and compete no matter what the situation.

The other is what's wrong with Gerhart as a RB and adding in another slash type player to compliment ? If the name of the game clock management then Gerhart gives you a great option at RB at a fraction of the cost.

AD is again...28 years old and I'm just not sure where we are going to find an above average QB, have him learn the offense and get chemistry with our WR's in the next 2 years ??? If you do find one they are going to want to be the focal point of the offense...not the RB.

Respect opinions but not really sure how AD benefits this team moving forward ..... Not sure you'll find many coaches that'll want to go in the same direction we have been going.


Offline mst3m1

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Re: Offense
« Reply #21 on: November 01, 2013, 05:45:16 PM »
I'll amend my comments as AD is signed through 2017.  Unless we are offered the farm I am fine with keeping him.  I was under the false understanding his contract was up in a year or two.  But another thing is most RBs start showing diminished results after 1500 carries and AD will be around 2000 after this year.
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Offline Simmion

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Re: Offense
« Reply #22 on: November 01, 2013, 06:14:29 PM »
I hope that's not the case what we are seeing so far this year mstm,  I don't think it yet since he has been hit 3 yards behind the line more so this season than I ever have in his career.
You know, I've personally flown over 194 missions and I was shot down every one.  Heh, come to think of it.  I've never landed a plane in my life.

Offline SithEvolution

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Re: Offense
« Reply #23 on: November 01, 2013, 06:24:01 PM »
Funny thing is yall cant even buy a superbowl soooo..........................

Know your role!!!!

Ummmmmm,

Cowboys = 5
Vikings     = 0

The team has played in four Super Bowls, and every time.......................

U Lost The Game!
The truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end; there it is

Offline mst3m1

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Re: Offense
« Reply #24 on: November 01, 2013, 06:28:48 PM »
I don't think he's there yet either Simmion but there are some red flags like what you mentioned.  All these hits he's taking this year add up.  Maybe keeping his carries down in this lost year isn't the worst thing.  I think Hutch is onto something with Gerhart.  Why not play him more?  It makes no sense.  I seem to think that a lot with this offensive game planning.  Save AD for next year when he can help a rookie QB who actually has a chance in this league.  Don't waste him with what we have now.   
"Apes don't read philosophy." "Yes they do, Otto. They just don't understand it."

 


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