Author Topic: Spielman  (Read 1163 times)

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Offline mst3m1

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Spielman
« on: February 14, 2014, 10:36:00 AM »
The powers of the NFL have it wrong.  They can fire all the coaches they want, it's the GM who truly control the team's destiny.  John Fox made it to the SB for crying out loud, and he's made repeated errors in countless games (his decisions before and during the SB are stupefying).  That brings me to Spielman.  His tireless efforts and binders full of information are admirable but sometimes I'd like him to use his gut instincts, or eye test, instead.  That being said I think he's done a fine job.  I don't think he should be judged solely on his ability to get a QB.  Let's face it, QBs are the hardest position to judge in all of sports.  Le's not throw the baby out with the bathwater.  This team had holes galore after our decision to go all in for a one time shot and I feel he's addressed many of those quite successfully.  Of course the QB is ridiculously important but I say give him 2 more years minimum.  He schooled the Seahawks with his Harvin trade so he deserves to see those picks come to fruition.  Belichick drafts like chit yet he gets a pass because he got lucky with a 6th round pick.  Seattle won the SB because of wise and luck.  Does the best CB in the league get drafted in the 5th round?  Too much luck.  Spielman has succeeded with many picks.  I can't rip him for failing once at the hardest spot to fill.  Yet.         
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Offline Simmion

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Re: Spielman
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2014, 10:54:04 AM »
Nice post,  I am on the fence. He has been the sole GM for too short for me to give up and I think he has fleeced many teams with trades for picks which I love.  But at the same time I haven't liked too many of our late picks.  Its tough.  I think this year's draft is a very important one for him.
You know, I've personally flown over 194 missions and I was shot down every one.  Heh, come to think of it.  I've never landed a plane in my life.

Offline Simmion

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Re: Spielman
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2014, 10:58:58 AM »
Oh and you can expect a 2 page post of hatred from Koko..  Ha!
You know, I've personally flown over 194 missions and I was shot down every one.  Heh, come to think of it.  I've never landed a plane in my life.

Offline mst3m1

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Re: Spielman
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2014, 11:06:23 AM »
I think he sucked ass in Miami but failures produce knowledge to those who accept it.  I don't want to give him 5 more years of free reign no matter what but I disagree with those who say he's garbage because of the Ponder failure.  I do admit that was a big failure but his idea of going for brains isn't the worst thing to do.  Brains are the #1 importance of a QB.   
"Apes don't read philosophy." "Yes they do, Otto. They just don't understand it."

Offline Hutch

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Re: Spielman
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2014, 05:24:59 PM »
The powers of the NFL have it wrong.  They can fire all the coaches they want, it's the GM who truly control the team's destiny.  John Fox made it to the SB for crying out loud, and he's made repeated errors in countless games (his decisions before and during the SB are stupefying).  That brings me to Spielman.  His tireless efforts and binders full of information are admirable but sometimes I'd like him to use his gut instincts, or eye test, instead.  That being said I think he's done a fine job.  I don't think he should be judged solely on his ability to get a QB.  Let's face it, QBs are the hardest position to judge in all of sports.  Le's not throw the baby out with the bathwater.  This team had holes galore after our decision to go all in for a one time shot and I feel he's addressed many of those quite successfully.  Of course the QB is ridiculously important but I say give him 2 more years minimum.  He schooled the Seahawks with his Harvin trade so he deserves to see those picks come to fruition.  Belichick drafts like chit yet he gets a pass because he got lucky with a 6th round pick.  Seattle won the SB because of wise and luck.  Does the best CB in the league get drafted in the 5th round?  Too much luck.  Spielman has succeeded with many picks.  I can't rip him for failing once at the hardest spot to fill.  Yet.         

Have to agree with Simmion......Koko will be coming after you for this post lol...

I think Spielman has done fine with some picks but been off a bit with later round pick.....when you take a look around the league I would say he's still in the middle.  The biggest knock is not getting a QB and it's not just in Minnesota but Miami too...he's pretty much missed every time so time is running out.....If he reaches this year that's it but he now has a solid OC in Turner to help him too....Spielman should get 2 more years hopefully he produces

Offline mst3m1

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Re: Spielman
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2014, 06:14:07 PM »
You know what's funny?  If, and that's a big if, Spielman  drafts a successful QB,  he will be considered a great.  That one position will probably determine his entire fate.  No matter what else he did.  Like rebuilding a fallen franchise.   
"Apes don't read philosophy." "Yes they do, Otto. They just don't understand it."

Offline Simmion

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Re: Spielman
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2014, 09:43:44 PM »
You know what's funny?  If, and that's a big if, Spielman  drafts a successful QB,  he will be considered a great.  That one position will probably determine his entire fate.  No matter what else he did.  Like rebuilding a fallen franchise.   

You might be right, but I haven't seen any late round position players get playing time.  Maybe with Zimmer we will see some back ups getting time.  Like Hodges.  Seems like we ran Marvin Mitchell to death (not him, but the fact that he sucked and played) even when he was playing crap.  Played Erin Henderson like he was legit when he wasn't at all. You heard the radio being politically correct because he was a friend of the show say he played well. When the common fan saw him and Marvin Mitchell would probably be 3rd string and never make the field on any other team in the NFL. I truly believe Fraizer had some loyalty with certain players he liked personally and played the favorites. With the season we had, why we didn't try Hodges, Mauti, Dean, etc.  We didn't try Audie Cole until Erin went down.  And he did really well IMO.  Dean is probably a ST player.  But when things went south,  start playing some new blood, because it will either kindle a fire and win, or show your franchise what you got. 

Long story short.  Fraizer could have helped Spielmans case (or hurt it) and played some of these young guys... See how well Prater did when he got the chance?
You know, I've personally flown over 194 missions and I was shot down every one.  Heh, come to think of it.  I've never landed a plane in my life.

Offline Simmion

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Re: Spielman
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2014, 09:48:13 PM »
And here I was defending Fraizer all season... I am starting to change tune because of that previous post.  I never understood why we didn't see the depth.  Wasn't that shoved down our throats that NFL teams need depth. Yet we never saw anything at LB all season.  Just Greenway, Henderson (when healthy) and Mitchell (except the few games Bishop played).  I am sure a play here and there.  And it was arguably our worst position.  Secondary got some looks because of injuries all over.... and side note warning.  Blanton needs to work on his game instead of his celebrations after tackling a guy for a 12 yard gain.  Biggest annoyance among DBs and he isn't even good.
You know, I've personally flown over 194 missions and I was shot down every one.  Heh, come to think of it.  I've never landed a plane in my life.

Offline Hutch

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Re: Spielman
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2014, 07:32:31 AM »
Part of the problem was Frazier knowing he was probably gone.....he tried to save his job and not look at developing players for the future. The person, if we are going to put blame, are the Wilfs IMO. When they hired Childress we went through a few ups and downs but he did what they asked and cleaned house. He was given probably too much control but realistically outside of QB he built a solid team that were a few plays from going to a super bowl. Unlike Frazier, Childress knew when he guessed wrong with TJack and tried to move on. Childress had some issues with players but IMO he should have been given a break as this was his first time being a HC....Personally I think the Wilfs put too much pressure to get to the Super Bowl and the coach paid the price. No one knows what would have happened had Childress stayed but the Wilfs over reacted and we all paid the price with Frazier. Again, that ship has sailed but lets put the blame where IMO it really belongs and that's with the ownership...they are new owners and have learned by trial and error with them making most of the errors to this point......good news is you learn by making mistakes and hopefully we are on the right path now.

Offline BtlsFan

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Re: Spielman
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2014, 08:56:11 AM »
Slick Rick should get 2 more years to see if he can find a QB. If he doesn't he should be gone! He has made some good trades and has done OK with his 1st and 2nd round picks. He leaves a lot to be desires with any of his picks after the 2nd round! H e got a good kicker and an OK slot receiver in Wright. Childs could be good, but I am starting to doubt that he will ever play a down for the Vikings. Bottom line is Spielman needs to do a better job with his later round picks and find a QB! Not a small task, but I do think he has the coaching staff in place to help him make good choices and then utilize the talent that is picked. The real question now is will he listen to the coaches? I think he will now since he has picked all of them and they are not just throwbacks to a sadder time.
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Offline mst3m1

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Re: Spielman
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2014, 06:28:14 PM »
Simmion says, "I truly believe Fraizer had some loyalty with certain players he liked personally and played the favorites."

I agree and that's the worst thing a coach can do.  If he truly wanted to keep his job he would stop being insane and doing the same thing while expecting different results. 
"Apes don't read philosophy." "Yes they do, Otto. They just don't understand it."

Offline Simmion

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Re: Spielman
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2014, 07:07:28 PM »
mstm,  I think our new guy won't be doing any of that after watching this scene.

You know, I've personally flown over 194 missions and I was shot down every one.  Heh, come to think of it.  I've never landed a plane in my life.

Offline Hutch

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Re: Spielman
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2014, 06:20:02 AM »
mstm,  I think our new guy won't be doing any of that after watching this scene.



Now that's what it's supposed to be like...

Offline mst3m1

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Re: Spielman
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2014, 08:29:27 AM »
Love it! 
"Apes don't read philosophy." "Yes they do, Otto. They just don't understand it."

Offline kokomodan

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Re: Spielman
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2014, 11:24:00 AM »
Ok you all know exactly how I feel about the situation. I've only harped on it for like 6 months...The fact that the Vikings had the best record in the division in the 2nd half of the season tells me that the players hadn't quit on him. That bears repeating the Vikings had the best 2nd half record in the division! The coaching staff didn't suddenly forget how to coach in less than a season! The Vikings were 10-6 with virtually the same team, (2013s version was more explosive no doubt) as the year prior, in my opinion. The loss of Winfield being the real sore spot on defense. He was the D's leader and I don't think that can be questioned after last years debacle.

No Frazier and Musgrave's brand of football wasn't our cup of tea. The defenses saw to that taking away AP after the 1st play of the season vs. the Lions. He still had a good year considering the injuries, but when a team is as 1 dimensional as the Vikings were all you really had to do was NOT let AP beat you. Teams played better gap responsibility vs. the Vikings and more of the same QB issues and a putrid defense led to what we all experienced last year.

Spielman is the guy responsible for bringing in talent. That includes the later rounds and undrafted rookies and free agents. Take a look at those core players that he was to have brought in. Carlson finally made some catches, but not until Rudolph was done for the year. That's a bust! Jennings, a guy that could have made a difference, was NEVER on the same page with a QB that Spielman was playing because of his EGO. He made the calls on the QBs last year and that's all but etched in stone following Frazier's dumping. The other free agents he has brought in were either still a year away from playing well again or just plain awful! An NFL team is completed by free agents not made of them, but you have to hit on some for Christ's sake!

Let's get to core depth. I've heard the old adage, " you're only as good as your depth." The other side of the coin is this, "yeah we have depth, but I hope we don't have to play them!"...What I feel everyone misses is this. The erosion of this team has occurred under Spielman's watch. He over drafted a 3rd round talent in Christian Ponder and that's NOT debatable! He's made splashy moves in the 1st round the last 2 years yet failed in every other segment of building a team. Sure he had no hand in the selection of the head coach until this year, but they made the playoffs with a bad team the year before. Yes, the Vikings were a bad team. Lucky to be 6-6 and go on a 4 game win streak to make the postseason. Had AP not had a near record breaking season Rick Spielman would already be in the rear view mirror! make no mistake about that!

Looking at Spielman's track record I'd bet money the Vikings either move up a few spots to take a QB, or back several and take the best available defensive player. It's a deep draft as all the talking heads will tell you! The Vikings still need a QB and should Rick's guy be there after say the 2nd pick I can see him jumping up to pick a QB, right, wrong or indifferent. If he guesses right well that great for us Viking fans. If he's wrong like he's always been though don't be surprised to see this franchise lag around the cellar for some time.

I didn't like Chilly as a head coach/GM,(he called the shots the Moss fiasco showed that) but he did build a winner. Even with the likes of TJACK the Vikings won a division title. Now he and several other talented Vikings allowed to leave under Spielman have a Super Bowl ring. Where's the justice? Talk all you want about how Spielman fleeced the Browns and the Seahawks. I still don't see the results in the win column, do you? I see a team in Seattle that true enough were lucky, but they had a plan and followed that plan and now they reap the rewards. What I see in Minnesota is a team that went cheap. Hired the Dollar General Manager and this team is still just as bad as it was when he was OFFICIALLY named the head cheese...

No, I don't like Spielman's actions. I don't like that the 1st day of the draft is the Vikings best day. That should come on the field, not in May or April, whenever the NFL decides to conduct it...Like I've said on many occasions. Look at who the Vikings have starting and where those draft picks have came from. then look at 95% of the other teams and you'll see it. A deficiency in talent at the starting positions. Most are special teams players for all the other teams.

I see only one QB worth drafting at #8 this year, Teddy Bridgewater. He's the most NFL ready, but I don't get to make those calls. Fact of the matter is "Slick Rick" shouldn't be allowed to do it anymore either!...SKOL Brother! fger Rick Spielman!
« Last Edit: February 27, 2014, 11:29:22 AM by kokomodan »
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Offline BtlsFan

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Re: Spielman
« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2014, 08:43:05 AM »
How do you really feel Koko? LOL! CNA
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Offline kokomodan

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Re: Spielman
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2014, 10:15:21 AM »
Oh there's more if I really delve into it!
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Offline Hutch

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Re: Spielman
« Reply #17 on: March 03, 2014, 12:49:21 PM »
Right now I'm on the fence with Spielman......he's been responsible for some solid talent and made moves up to get Smith and Patterson with both players being great moves along with other too....he's also missed on a few. The one thing that should help is not playing this zone crap defense anymore...not only does it eliminate certain players it generally calls for drafting lower end guys with quickness so we are lacking guys that can cover in man or press. That is more on the coach IMO.....Spielman supplies players for the way the coach wants to run there team.....Frazier seemed to want guys that could tackle and cared little much for guys who could cover well   ..... that included both DB's and LB's. Now we are switching we'll soon see if it was spielman or the previous coachs schemes that were the real concerns.

Offline kokomodan

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Re: Spielman
« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2014, 10:58:15 AM »
I'm sure we will see what type of defense Zimmer employs. I would guess that it will be 4-3 in nature and often similar to what Frazier played until they get MORE and BETTER talent on that side of the ball. That Cover 2 will be played, but not as a base. I'd almost bet you'll see Vikings and Bear defensive players going there to play what Les and Lovey design for Cover 2. That would allow the Bucs to shop Revis. Maybe he goes to Denver to shore up that backfield for 1 more run at the Super Bowl?

Rick Spielman is on the clock now. By that I mean he's a dead man walking should he fail to procure a quality signal caller in Minnesota in the next 2 years. My assessment was he should have been fired before Frazier. Spielman, Frazier, Williams and the Musgrave in that order was the right move. I could have been OK with Frazier staying seeing how the Vikings , unbelievably, had the best record in the 2nd half of the season in the NFC North...I'm still asking how that happened, but Rodgers did go down and that answers the question, doesn't it?

The ONLY way I will go back on my thinking about Spielman is IF he can get a team and win the Super Bowl. After all that's what this is all about, not simply making the playoffs. Oh yeah, soon they will let another chitty team in to keep the season going another week. The owners will get their way on more games that way. Not by adding 2 more regular season games!
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Offline mst3m1

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Re: Spielman
« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2014, 03:44:41 PM »
I got more frustrated with Frazier as time went on.  He refused to get Patterson in there earlier because we "already had starters covering all positions", he couldn't get Rhodes in because he could "only play one side of the field" then when he did get in he played him in a zone despite the fact he is a very good bump and run guy.  And I don't think the GM should draft players to fit the mold of the head coach.  That restricts getting the best players available.  Coaches should adapt to their talent, not be forced into a scheme that doesn't let them play at their best potential.   
"Apes don't read philosophy." "Yes they do, Otto. They just don't understand it."

Offline kokomodan

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Re: Spielman
« Reply #20 on: March 05, 2014, 08:58:26 AM »
Spielman didn't draft for the scheme. Did you watch that abortion on defense last season? 30 points a game and perhaps the worst pass defense in the league. The talent level on the field, especially on defense, was just awful!...As for Patterson, what was he supposed to do bench the leading receiver(Simpson) or the guy making $14 million a year?(Jennings) Hindsight is 20/20 and the coaches weren't put in the best position. Again Spielman's fault! QB failure across the board probably didn't help the situation either...Suffice to say I was not a big Frazier fan, but the team didn't quit on him. They were just BAD...SKOL Brother!
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Offline mst3m1

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Re: Spielman
« Reply #21 on: March 05, 2014, 01:42:11 PM »
Yes, I did see that horrible defense.  I also saw the holes this team had when Chilly left.  Holes from front to back on that side of the ball, along with WR and QB.  And yes, if I saw Patterson was a better player I'd replace my best receiver with the better player when that best receiver is Jerome Simpson.  I would also play a better player over one who made more money if that decision gave me a better chance to win.  I'm not saying that was the case here but overall.  I also believe quitting has more to do with individual players than what the coaches do or say.  In that regard Spielman has done a good job getting high integrity players in here.  I'm not saying Spielman is the best but I don't think he's the worst either.  His time is limited though if there isn't improvement this year. 
"Apes don't read philosophy." "Yes they do, Otto. They just don't understand it."

Offline Hutch

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Re: Spielman
« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2014, 07:36:38 PM »
Spielman didn't draft for the scheme. Did you watch that abortion on defense last season? 30 points a game and perhaps the worst pass defense in the league. The talent level on the field, especially on defense, was just awful!...As for Patterson, what was he supposed to do bench the leading receiver(Simpson) or the guy making $14 million a year?(Jennings) Hindsight is 20/20 and the coaches weren't put in the best position. Again Spielman's fault! QB failure across the board probably didn't help the situation either...Suffice to say I was not a big Frazier fan, but the team didn't quit on him. They were just BAD...SKOL Brother!

So you and Ricky not best buds anymore :)......did you give him some suggestions at the combine...hope you atleast heckled him a little.

There are a few FA's like Whitner, Talib, Browner that could be nice additions and if we "draft Well" the next couple of years things could change dramatically in a hurry. our depth did stink and that was on Spielman but it's also on Frazier not knowing how to use the back up effectively or changing things to their strengths.

Offline DJ Launch

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Re: Spielman
« Reply #23 on: March 05, 2014, 08:04:51 PM »
In this way, it receives more games. It's not by the fact that he adds, plus the 2 regular season games! Soon after, the other Love Hurts himself was on another sabbath. It's not only as to what ought to be done, to get out of the playoffs. I will repeat myself "If there be any thought of his team Spielman to win the Super Bowl, we will show them."

Rodgers went down to the question. 2 record in the NFC North, the best part of it ... A census that caught in my sight, was strictly not possible.

It's very important for Denver to shore up, which ran backfield for the 1 to the Super Bowl? But, to come to the shop, the Bucs have been brought back. Indeed, we see that now the gate is open, and how they entered these things in Unified. I guess as we have often players with the same coaches, assuredly we will take Zimmerman as a kind of defense man.
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Offline DJ Launch

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Re: Spielman
« Reply #24 on: March 05, 2014, 08:06:21 PM »
Why did I say that?
The surface can be more than just a rock that is grist for the department to be the point kite. Come on people share makes the ditch.

 


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