Author Topic: Congrats Zimmer  (Read 4200 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline kokomodan

  • Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 3519
  • Where the white women at?
Re: Congrats Zimmer
« Reply #50 on: September 15, 2014, 11:55:36 AM »

Here's an article I had to respond to on Fan Sided. You know I'm a huge fan of Teddy, but...The title is....The Vikings Must Make Teddy Bridgewater Starter Now!


Adrian Peterson’s status as a Viking going forward is in limbo, and the direction of the franchise may alter drastically depending on how they handle the allegations surrounding their superstar. But another question has pushed itself to the forefront — when will the Vikings declare Teddy Bridgewater starter at quarterback?

Prior to the season beginning, there were factors to weigh before placing Bridgewater at the helm. Despite an outstanding college career at Louisville, there’s no clear-cut answer of how to introduce a young quarterback to the NFL. In the case of an all-timer in Peyton Manning, he started for the Indianapolis Colts from day one, struggling through his rough rookie season before blossoming into one of the greatest players ever. For every Manning that learns by being given the chance to work through mistakes, there’s a David Carr who crumbles because both team and player aren’t ready for the responsibility.

Sep 14, 2014; Minneapolis, MN, USA; Minnesota Vikings quarterback Teddy Bridgewater (5) throws before the game against the New England Patriots at TCF Bank Stadium. Mandatory Credit: Bruce Kluckhohn-USA TODAY Sports


Bridgewater is no Carr; his college career at Louisville was nothing short of spectacular, and there was visible, dramatic improvement each year. Given more responsibility as the reps piled up, Bridgewater cut his interception totals every season while watching his touchdowns and completion percentage rise. By his senior year, he racked up 31 touchdowns against just four interceptions, connecting on 71 percent of his passes.

Beyond traditional statistics, Bridgewater impressed with his ability to direct Louisville’s offense with astute pre-snap decisions and subtle movements during the action. Coach Charlie Strong called on his quarterback to take control of and master the offense, and his pupil proved to be an adept study. While Bridgewater was ultimately judged for his passing proficiency, his instinctual defensive recognition led to numerous successful running plays on hot reads. Likewise, his knack for misleading opposing defenders with his eyes helped look receivers open that were otherwise blanketed.



The NFL isn’t the ACC, of course, so there are questions as to whether Bridgewater could replicate this success on the top stage, particularly right away. When the alternative is another season of Matt Cassel, though, there’s not much reason to give it a second thought.

To be fair to the Vikings, it’s not as if they have treated Cassel as the long-term steward of the franchise. Between the decision to trade up for Bridgewater in this year’s draft and the open competition for the starting job in training camp, Minnesota has indicated that they have plenty of belief in Bridgewater as the future of the franchise. Cassel, originally brought in to back-up (and challenge) Christian Ponder, is more of a stop-gap than anything else. He’s a known quantity that the Vikes evidently feel comfortable with.

Comfort and caution would be acceptable retorts if Cassel was an above-average starter, one that could help squeeze out a few wins at the end of Peterson’s prime. But he’s not; he’s a spectacularly average quarterback that has only eclipsed a passing percentage of 60 twice. Once came under the watchful eye of Bill Belichick in New England, the other in last year’s abbreviated campaign. There have been stretches where he’s had “the look” and his teams have had bouts of success over the years, but they are errant peaks that disguise the more frequent valleys. Plenty of quarterbacks can say they’ve produced in small samples, but the only ones worth having string them together consistently. He is a backup masquerading as a starter.

Fans are ready to see him step away in favor of their hopeful savior — they let him know as much by raining “Teddy!” chants down during Cassel’s four-interception performance against the New England Patriots. The outcry of impassioned supporters shouldn’t be an impetus for change, but in this case they are seeing the situation for what it is. Minnesota has the fifth-youngest roster in the league, and their most dynamic player may be second-year receiver Cordarrelle Patterson. He and the rest of the offense would be better served developing chemistry with the man they hope will be slinging the ball well into the future, rather than playing catch with a stopgap.
Cassel may be better prepared for the week-to-week battle of the NFL — he was a tad more accurate in the preseason — and he may even produce better results right now than Bridgewater could. But the Vikings aren’t a team that should be concerned with the immediate future. The difference between Cassel producing numerous turnovers and Bridgewater coughing the ball up is that Bridgewater’s mistakes come with the hope of correction and improvement. He is a mold-able player that can reasonably be expected to improve with experience, whereas Cassel is a finished product that isn’t quite good enough for mass consumption.
While some would argue that Bridgewater would be best served by holding a clipboard and continuing to dissect film until the perfect moment, his track record indicates that he would be better served with a hands-on approach. His attempts skyrocketed between his freshman and sophomore season at Louisville, and the increased burden led to his breakout season, culminating in a dissection of the Florida Gators in the 2013 Sugar Bowl. Correlation is not causation, but there’s more proof that Bridgewater would benefit from an advanced NFL crash course than there is for sudden, sustained excellence from Cassel.

In the wake of an ugly scandal pertaining to their long-time leading man, the Vikings could use a fresh face at the forefront. Head coach Mike Zimmer would set himself up well for the future by naming Teddy Bridgewater starter immediately, pushing Cassel into the backup role he is suited for. It is an investment for the future, and with the present murky at best, dividends of this size can’t be passed up




My response...

Anyone worth their weight in salt already knows that to win consistently in the NFL you have to be balanced. Run to pass, and offense, defense, and special teams. You have to win 2 of the 3 categories, and
when you lose all 3 you get blown out. That's what happened yesterday...

Was Cassel awful yesterday? Absolutely, but had the FG at the end of the 1st half resulted in the desired outcome the score would have been 17-10 instead of 24-7. That ended the competitive phase of the game yesterday. Would the Vikings have won had the FG been good? Beats the hell out of me, but suggesting that Teddy Bridgewater needs to be the starting QB now is short sighted on your part. Then again you are writing on the subject while men who have been in this business a very long time are actually making decisions. I'd assume they are a bit more informed than you, or I...

Cassel having to throw too much is a recipe for disaster. That's exactly what transpired yesterday. You mentioned the youth of this team. You should also realize that they are simply NOT ready to overcome the self inflicted wounds they inflicted on themselves. The Vikings, without AP, limited the options the Vikings had, unless you feel Matt Asiata is his equal. The Patriots saw what was being brought to the table and quickly made adjustments and shifted Mayo to limit that safety valve that worked the 1st series. The Patriots then dared the Vikings to beat them with Cassel, and that isn't going to happen without the homerun threat of AP in the backfield. Teddy isn't going to be able to overcome that either, right now...

Suffice to say that I'll stay with Zimmer and Turner's judgment over your OPINION. I'm sure they will know when or if it's time to bring in Teddy Bridgewater. On that day he will be ready to play in the NFL, and NOT when some sports writer with an OPNION deems it so...
min1          stl3          indiana1

Offline kokomodan

  • Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 3519
  • Where the white women at?
Re: Congrats Zimmer
« Reply #51 on: September 15, 2014, 12:02:15 PM »
Even with some of then throws Cassell was making he was hitting guys right infront of defenders on crossing routes which was nuts. No sure if it was the pressure or what but if he waits a second longer as the WR clears the LB we have a few big plays. I went back and watched the game again (like the punishment)...game plan seemed fine but the execution by the o_line and Cassell was just pathetic. I was like you Koko in hoping we could get through week 6 before Teddy comes in but if this doesn't change in a hurry that could all change.

Yeah, I'm hoping for a better effort next week in all 3 phases. Without AP the offense is limited and then teams can sit back and make Cassel beat them. When he's ready the coaches will know. We all questioned Frazier and his regime, but that's what he was dealing with as well. A 1 dimensional offense albeit on the run side. It's a symbiotic relationship to be sure. I'm ready for Teddy, but he's not ready for this or I firmly believe Zimmer and Turner would have him in there. The day is coming to be sure...
min1          stl3          indiana1

Offline kokomodan

  • Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 3519
  • Where the white women at?
Re: Congrats Zimmer
« Reply #52 on: September 15, 2014, 12:04:49 PM »
Vikings are tied for the division lead! I like it Koko! They looked like world beaters the first series! Right down the field for a touchdown and then "Bill" made the adjustments and it was lights out for the Vikings. That was hard to watch, but everyone knows that these first 6 games are tough. I'm hoping Turner can make the adjustments he needs to for the Saints and we get another win. Cassel flat out looked bad and he went down a notch in my opinion when he used the old Ponder line afterwards. " I know I need to get better and I will."  lame1
Don't say it, show it! Make me believe that you are capable of being a starting QB in the NFL! If not bring in Teddy and let him get the experience. Let's put this one behind us and move forward.

Skol Vikings!!! cheer1

Only way to look at it bro! Young team throws in stinker after 5 straight wins. Gonna happen especially when you keep shooting each other's foot off. Offense, shooting defense, and special teams shooting both offense and defenses feet...
min1          stl3          indiana1

Offline Hutch

  • Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 1635
  • I'm over Harvin now that we have Diggs
Re: Congrats Zimmer
« Reply #53 on: September 15, 2014, 09:35:06 PM »
Here's an article I had to respond to on Fan Sided. You know I'm a huge fan of Teddy, but...The title is....The Vikings Must Make Teddy Bridgewater Starter Now!


Adrian Peterson’s status as a Viking going forward is in limbo, and the direction of the franchise may alter drastically depending on how they handle the allegations surrounding their superstar. But another question has pushed itself to the forefront — when will the Vikings declare Teddy Bridgewater starter at quarterback?

Prior to the season beginning, there were factors to weigh before placing Bridgewater at the helm. Despite an outstanding college career at Louisville, there’s no clear-cut answer of how to introduce a young quarterback to the NFL. In the case of an all-timer in Peyton Manning, he started for the Indianapolis Colts from day one, struggling through his rough rookie season before blossoming into one of the greatest players ever. For every Manning that learns by being given the chance to work through mistakes, there’s a David Carr who crumbles because both team and player aren’t ready for the responsibility.

Sep 14, 2014; Minneapolis, MN, USA; Minnesota Vikings quarterback Teddy Bridgewater (5) throws before the game against the New England Patriots at TCF Bank Stadium. Mandatory Credit: Bruce Kluckhohn-USA TODAY Sports


Bridgewater is no Carr; his college career at Louisville was nothing short of spectacular, and there was visible, dramatic improvement each year. Given more responsibility as the reps piled up, Bridgewater cut his interception totals every season while watching his touchdowns and completion percentage rise. By his senior year, he racked up 31 touchdowns against just four interceptions, connecting on 71 percent of his passes.

Beyond traditional statistics, Bridgewater impressed with his ability to direct Louisville’s offense with astute pre-snap decisions and subtle movements during the action. Coach Charlie Strong called on his quarterback to take control of and master the offense, and his pupil proved to be an adept study. While Bridgewater was ultimately judged for his passing proficiency, his instinctual defensive recognition led to numerous successful running plays on hot reads. Likewise, his knack for misleading opposing defenders with his eyes helped look receivers open that were otherwise blanketed.



The NFL isn’t the ACC, of course, so there are questions as to whether Bridgewater could replicate this success on the top stage, particularly right away. When the alternative is another season of Matt Cassel, though, there’s not much reason to give it a second thought.

To be fair to the Vikings, it’s not as if they have treated Cassel as the long-term steward of the franchise. Between the decision to trade up for Bridgewater in this year’s draft and the open competition for the starting job in training camp, Minnesota has indicated that they have plenty of belief in Bridgewater as the future of the franchise. Cassel, originally brought in to back-up (and challenge) Christian Ponder, is more of a stop-gap than anything else. He’s a known quantity that the Vikes evidently feel comfortable with.

Comfort and caution would be acceptable retorts if Cassel was an above-average starter, one that could help squeeze out a few wins at the end of Peterson’s prime. But he’s not; he’s a spectacularly average quarterback that has only eclipsed a passing percentage of 60 twice. Once came under the watchful eye of Bill Belichick in New England, the other in last year’s abbreviated campaign. There have been stretches where he’s had “the look” and his teams have had bouts of success over the years, but they are errant peaks that disguise the more frequent valleys. Plenty of quarterbacks can say they’ve produced in small samples, but the only ones worth having string them together consistently. He is a backup masquerading as a starter.

Fans are ready to see him step away in favor of their hopeful savior — they let him know as much by raining “Teddy!” chants down during Cassel’s four-interception performance against the New England Patriots. The outcry of impassioned supporters shouldn’t be an impetus for change, but in this case they are seeing the situation for what it is. Minnesota has the fifth-youngest roster in the league, and their most dynamic player may be second-year receiver Cordarrelle Patterson. He and the rest of the offense would be better served developing chemistry with the man they hope will be slinging the ball well into the future, rather than playing catch with a stopgap.
Cassel may be better prepared for the week-to-week battle of the NFL — he was a tad more accurate in the preseason — and he may even produce better results right now than Bridgewater could. But the Vikings aren’t a team that should be concerned with the immediate future. The difference between Cassel producing numerous turnovers and Bridgewater coughing the ball up is that Bridgewater’s mistakes come with the hope of correction and improvement. He is a mold-able player that can reasonably be expected to improve with experience, whereas Cassel is a finished product that isn’t quite good enough for mass consumption.
While some would argue that Bridgewater would be best served by holding a clipboard and continuing to dissect film until the perfect moment, his track record indicates that he would be better served with a hands-on approach. His attempts skyrocketed between his freshman and sophomore season at Louisville, and the increased burden led to his breakout season, culminating in a dissection of the Florida Gators in the 2013 Sugar Bowl. Correlation is not causation, but there’s more proof that Bridgewater would benefit from an advanced NFL crash course than there is for sudden, sustained excellence from Cassel.

In the wake of an ugly scandal pertaining to their long-time leading man, the Vikings could use a fresh face at the forefront. Head coach Mike Zimmer would set himself up well for the future by naming Teddy Bridgewater starter immediately, pushing Cassel into the backup role he is suited for. It is an investment for the future, and with the present murky at best, dividends of this size can’t be passed up




My response...

Anyone worth their weight in salt already knows that to win consistently in the NFL you have to be balanced. Run to pass, and offense, defense, and special teams. You have to win 2 of the 3 categories, and
when you lose all 3 you get blown out. That's what happened yesterday...

Was Cassel awful yesterday? Absolutely, but had the FG at the end of the 1st half resulted in the desired outcome the score would have been 17-10 instead of 24-7. That ended the competitive phase of the game yesterday. Would the Vikings have won had the FG been good? Beats the hell out of me, but suggesting that Teddy Bridgewater needs to be the starting QB now is short sighted on your part. Then again you are writing on the subject while men who have been in this business a very long time are actually making decisions. I'd assume they are a bit more informed than you, or I...

Cassel having to throw too much is a recipe for disaster. That's exactly what transpired yesterday. You mentioned the youth of this team. You should also realize that they are simply NOT ready to overcome the self inflicted wounds they inflicted on themselves. The Vikings, without AP, limited the options the Vikings had, unless you feel Matt Asiata is his equal. The Patriots saw what was being brought to the table and quickly made adjustments and shifted Mayo to limit that safety valve that worked the 1st series. The Patriots then dared the Vikings to beat them with Cassel, and that isn't going to happen without the homerun threat of AP in the backfield. Teddy isn't going to be able to overcome that either, right now...

Suffice to say that I'll stay with Zimmer and Turner's judgment over your OPINION. I'm sure they will know when or if it's time to bring in Teddy Bridgewater. On that day he will be ready to play in the NFL, and NOT when some sports writer with an OPNION deems it so...


II like your response Koko....pretty much agree with everything you wrote......I think some  get confused what they think what is right for the player is right for the team and that is not the case here. I think we can all agree Teddy will easily exceed Cassells ability and should do so fairly quickly....just not yet like you have mentioned Koko. The other part is the offense is still a work in progress and all 11 guys on the filed still have a ways to go to get fully comfortable with it. For me that's when Teddy should go in. When the guys around him are comfortable enough and able to play without thinking that's when Teddy should see the field.

Offline BtlsFan

  • Starter
  • ****
  • Posts: 338
  • I may be crazy, but it keeps me from going insane!
Re: Congrats Zimmer
« Reply #54 on: September 16, 2014, 08:25:40 AM »
I just saw that Ingraham is out for the Saints! That works in our favor. After looking at the last game again I noticed that the defense actually didn't look that bad. Brady only had 149 yards passing. The real issue was the fact that the Pats had unbelievable field position the entire game. When you only have to go 50 yards for a score the game gets much easier. NE scored 24 points off of the turn overs and the blocked field goal return. I'm not saying the Vikings would have won the game, but they would have been much more competitive if the offense hadn't shot themselves in the foot so much. I look for a much better game on Sunday!

Skol Vikings!!! nutkick
min1 stl3

Offline kokomodan

  • Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 3519
  • Where the white women at?
Re: Congrats Zimmer
« Reply #55 on: September 16, 2014, 08:53:59 AM »
II like your response Koko....pretty much agree with everything you wrote......I think some  get confused what they think what is right for the player is right for the team and that is not the case here. I think we can all agree Teddy will easily exceed Cassells ability and should do so fairly quickly....just not yet like you have mentioned Koko. The other part is the offense is still a work in progress and all 11 guys on the filed still have a ways to go to get fully comfortable with it. For me that's when Teddy should go in. When the guys around him are comfortable enough and able to play without thinking that's when Teddy should see the field.

I don't doubt Teddy is probably ready to play, but at this point why? You are correct when you say Teddy's ability will pass Cassel's fairly quick. In the case of Sunday it's really simple. The blocked FG ended the game, because the Vikings didn't have the balance after that. They were 1 dimensional and got beat in all 3 phases of the game. Result blow out every time...Teddy's day is coming and I would think it will be this season, unless Cassel shows he's a lot better than he showed on Sunday. Meh, we all know what Cassel is. A game manager at best and a liability at worst. Should he continue to throw the ball to the other guys Teddy will be thrust onto the scene pretty damn quick...
min1          stl3          indiana1

Offline kokomodan

  • Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 3519
  • Where the white women at?
Re: Congrats Zimmer
« Reply #56 on: September 16, 2014, 08:58:25 AM »
I just saw that Ingraham is out for the Saints! That works in our favor. After looking at the last game again I noticed that the defense actually didn't look that bad. Brady only had 149 yards passing. The real issue was the fact that the Pats had unbelievable field position the entire game. When you only have to go 50 yards for a score the game gets much easier. NE scored 24 points off of the turn overs and the blocked field goal return. I'm not saying the Vikings would have won the game, but they would have been much more competitive if the offense hadn't shot themselves in the foot so much. I look for a much better game on Sunday!

Skol Vikings!!! nutkick

I'm not saying that either, but should AP have been on the field I believe the outcome might have been a little different as well. Revis covered Jennings all day and without the 8 men in the box routine that every team throws at the Vikings the WRs had little room to operate...

A little tid bit of info for you guys. The money line for the patriots game was -110 Pats. -110 Vikings when it opened. When AP was deactivated the Money Line went to -250 for the Pats. That to win $100...Quite a leap to be sure!
min1          stl3          indiana1

Offline Simmion

  • Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 2518
Re: Congrats Zimmer
« Reply #57 on: September 16, 2014, 09:19:15 PM »
Things I noticed from game 2.

-Patterson was exposed Sunday.  You put a guy on him man to man and bump and run.  He is neutralized.   He might have a catch here and there.  But he struggles against it.

-Barr is a beast.  Once this "kid" learns the ropes, he will bust some skulls. And make massive plays.

-Jarius Wright has become worthless.  Is it the type of routes he is forces to run (I think so with the 5 and outs... he needs to be seem splitting in the middle of the field).

-Harry Smith is awesome.  That short yardage stick was second to none.

-Matt Asiata is not a starting caliber RB.

-Xavier Rhodes, although had a bad game, is better than what was reported.  1 for sure PI call was complete BS, but he is in position. He could be elite if he learns how to turn and make a play, because he is always in position.

-Captain Munnerlylylylyylylylylyln is not as good as we thought. 

-Matt Kalil,  why don't you show up already and start blocking some people. 
You know, I've personally flown over 194 missions and I was shot down every one.  Heh, come to think of it.  I've never landed a plane in my life.

Offline Hutch

  • Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 1635
  • I'm over Harvin now that we have Diggs
Re: Congrats Zimmer
« Reply #58 on: September 16, 2014, 09:53:05 PM »
Things I noticed from game 2.

-Patterson was exposed Sunday.  You put a guy on him man to man and bump and run.  He is neutralized.   He might have a catch here and there.  But he struggles against it.

-Barr is a beast.  Once this "kid" learns the ropes, he will bust some skulls. And make massive plays.

-Jarius Wright has become worthless.  Is it the type of routes he is forces to run (I think so with the 5 and outs... he needs to be seem splitting in the middle of the field).

-Harry Smith is awesome.  That short yardage stick was second to none.

-Matt Asiata is not a starting caliber RB.

-Xavier Rhodes, although had a bad game, is better than what was reported.  1 for sure PI call was complete BS, but he is in position. He could be elite if he learns how to turn and make a play, because he is always in position.

-Captain Munnerlylylylyylylylylyln is not as good as we thought. 

-Matt Kalil,  why don't you show up already and start blocking some people. 

and this is why we are atleast another FA and draft away from building a calibre team. It's year one for this group and there is going to be many bumps in the road.

Offline Hutch

  • Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 1635
  • I'm over Harvin now that we have Diggs
Re: Congrats Zimmer
« Reply #59 on: September 17, 2014, 07:16:31 AM »
Thank goodness the Vikings did the right thing with Peterson. Probably never see the field again as a Viking.

Offline Simmion

  • Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 2518
Re: Congrats Zimmer
« Reply #60 on: September 17, 2014, 07:28:02 AM »
Thank goodness the Vikings did the right thing with Peterson. Probably never see the field again as a Viking.

Oh but it was "from pressure of others" and will be accused of being as evil as Peterson by the media.  I didn't agree with the reinstatement at first.  But they were dealt a tough situation.  Responded incorrectly and now will appear to be the worst management because of it.  Eff off Media.
You know, I've personally flown over 194 missions and I was shot down every one.  Heh, come to think of it.  I've never landed a plane in my life.

Offline Simmion

  • Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 2518
Re: Congrats Zimmer
« Reply #61 on: September 17, 2014, 08:23:16 AM »
I recant my previous post.  I see all the sponsors started jumping ship.  This was done due to money it seems. Bummed.
You know, I've personally flown over 194 missions and I was shot down every one.  Heh, come to think of it.  I've never landed a plane in my life.

Offline BtlsFan

  • Starter
  • ****
  • Posts: 338
  • I may be crazy, but it keeps me from going insane!
Re: Congrats Zimmer
« Reply #62 on: September 17, 2014, 08:52:57 AM »
It is always about the money with the NFL! When the Vikings re-instated AD it was because they thought they could make more money if they put a winning team on the field and AD gives them the best chance to do that. When the Sponsors started to jump ship the Wilfs quickly backpedaled and said it for the good of the team and AD to not play. At the age of 29 and the pending legal issues I have some serious doubts that we ever see AD play as a Viking again. The Wilfs will look at that big contract and say this is our chance to dump that big payout and still look like stand up guys. Meanwhile it is still all about the Benjamins!
min1 stl3

Offline kokomodan

  • Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 3519
  • Where the white women at?
Re: Congrats Zimmer
« Reply #63 on: September 17, 2014, 11:45:53 AM »
Only in the NFL...An employee is charged with a crime, NOT convicted of a crime. No other employer I know pays the employee to NOT go to work. When I was with Chrysler suspected child molesters, drug dealers, and thieves came to work after charges were levied against them. Why? Because in America you are supposed to be innocent until proven guilty. The timing for AP and the Vikings couldn't have been worse. The wavering of the Vikings front office is ridiculous as well. The Governor and sponsors say something, or threaten to pull money out, and the Wilfs' jump. It's all about the money for them and NOT about what's right for the team or AP. That's merely a disguise. I wonder if the Wilfs are still trying to deflect the chit storm and try to keep the lid on their business practices that were shady at best and criminal at worst?

Job number one for the NFL is to always appear politically correct I suppose?...See OJ Simpson, Rae Carruth, and Aaron Hernandez, I wonder if any other profession/Business has as many killers that were employed by the NFL? I fear we may be seeing the NFL's demise before our very eyes...
min1          stl3          indiana1

Offline Hutch

  • Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 1635
  • I'm over Harvin now that we have Diggs
Re: Congrats Zimmer
« Reply #64 on: September 17, 2014, 04:19:09 PM »
It's always about the money and that will never change. I think the difference is atheletes are role models for many people especially children and right or wrong they and their team they represent are always in the spot light. When it comes to domestic violence and especially with children that from a business side has to be dealt with immediately. The Vikings screwed up by not doing this in the first place.......Sadly this isn't about innocent until proven guilty...he's guilty and admitted he did the things he is changed with...Peterson has openly admitted this. Ther legal process has to play out but it's not about guilt but rather about the punishment that will be brought down. We all have seen the pictures of that 4 year boy and I'm sure all of us have been sick with disgust that a human being could do this to a little child. Peterson was the face of a franchise and that face needed to be removed.....permanently

Offline Hutch

  • Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 1635
  • I'm over Harvin now that we have Diggs
Re: Congrats Zimmer
« Reply #65 on: September 17, 2014, 07:53:25 PM »
I don't get some of these players that are supporting AD.....Reggie Bush is saying he'd give his 1 year old daughter a similar whopping, Capt Munneran say AD did nothing wrong and should be able to discipline his child anyway he wants.......I'm not trying to be ignorrant but is this a freaking black thing. I mean I'm hearing how these black atheletes grew up getting these beatings and they are thankful for them ...that is just to ^&*&*&*&* up. It looks like a lot of these players need therapy and/or jail time.

Offline Simmion

  • Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 2518
Re: Congrats Zimmer
« Reply #66 on: September 17, 2014, 08:14:34 PM »
I think they called it a southern thing.  It appears to be a color issue but it has come from them only.  I think people of similar race will jump first to support their guy. But in general teammates usually support their fellow teammate.  John Sullivan didn't support it on the radio.  But Harrison Smith did.  But on the other hand, maybe it is?  Think back to the roots of African Americans being here.  Whipped for discipline.  Now I don't want to be ignorant, either. But could that method have been carried through all these generations?

But I agree.  I hate the support arguements.  All of them.

-It's just how he was raised.
-He didn't intend to hurt the child ( saywha)
-Look, its called discipline, bro.  Look it up.
-It's the culture of the South.
-The kid had multiple areas of welts only because he was moving around and being defensive with his hands. (Um, if I was being whipped I damn sure wouldn't be holding still, dumbass). I think that one got me the most.  "That dumb kid was resisting.  And trying to protect himself with his hands.  He is only to blame."

None of that does a lick of convincing.  The "just how he was raised" one explains why he does it.  But none of these defends the fact that it was excessive and shouldn't be tolerated. Of course, again.  That's my opinion.
You know, I've personally flown over 194 missions and I was shot down every one.  Heh, come to think of it.  I've never landed a plane in my life.

Offline Hutch

  • Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 1635
  • I'm over Harvin now that we have Diggs
Re: Congrats Zimmer
« Reply #67 on: September 18, 2014, 09:44:36 AM »
I think they called it a southern thing.  It appears to be a color issue but it has come from them only.  I think people of similar race will jump first to support their guy. But in general teammates usually support their fellow teammate.  John Sullivan didn't support it on the radio.  But Harrison Smith did.  But on the other hand, maybe it is?  Think back to the roots of African Americans being here.  Whipped for discipline.  Now I don't want to be ignorant, either. But could that method have been carried through all these generations?

But I agree.  I hate the support arguements.  All of them.

-It's just how he was raised.
-He didn't intend to hurt the child ( saywha)
-Look, its called discipline, bro.  Look it up.
-It's the culture of the South.
-The kid had multiple areas of welts only because he was moving around and being defensive with his hands. (Um, if I was being whipped I damn sure wouldn't be holding still, dumbass). I think that one got me the most.  "That dumb kid was resisting.  And trying to protect himself with his hands.  He is only to blame."

None of that does a lick of convincing.  The "just how he was raised" one explains why he does it.  But none of these defends the fact that it was excessive and shouldn't be tolerated. Of course, again.  That's my opinion.

Exactly Simmion, some of the reasoning from these people is really scary. The line "just how he was raised" is nonsense. The fact people witnessed AD getting these whoppings as a child and did nothing is pathetic. I read comments from AD's mother and she is just warped in trying to justify it. What I'm glad to see is sponsers like nike and others coming out (all be it for money purposes) and saying they want no part of a player or organization  that would support any kind of violence toward women or children. The sad part is one would think in todays society this would be a given but it appears many still live in the stone ages. For Texas or any state to support corp punishment is sickening...there are many ways to discipline and communicate to your children that don't include violence. To play in the NFL or on any professional time is a privillage and not a right. The league needs to get rid of all these sick bastards as soon as possible.

Where I live if you strike your child, your neighbour or a total stranger it's assault and a crime. What really pisses me off is states like Texas can pass a law that it's ok to hit your kid if you are not happy with something they have done but do the exact same thing to an adult or someone elses kid and you are thrown in jail. Just pathetic.

Offline BtlsFan

  • Starter
  • ****
  • Posts: 338
  • I may be crazy, but it keeps me from going insane!
Re: Congrats Zimmer
« Reply #68 on: September 18, 2014, 09:54:55 AM »
I think they called it a southern thing.  It appears to be a color issue but it has come from them only.  I think people of similar race will jump first to support their guy. But in general teammates usually support their fellow teammate.  John Sullivan didn't support it on the radio.  But Harrison Smith did.  But on the other hand, maybe it is?  Think back to the roots of African Americans being here.  Whipped for discipline.  Now I don't want to be ignorant, either. But could that method have been carried through all these generations?

But I agree.  I hate the support arguements.  All of them.

-It's just how he was raised.
-He didn't intend to hurt the child ( saywha)
-Look, its called discipline, bro.  Look it up.
-It's the culture of the South.
-The kid had multiple areas of welts only because he was moving around and being defensive with his hands. (Um, if I was being whipped I damn sure wouldn't be holding still, dumbass). I think that one got me the most.  "That dumb kid was resisting.  And trying to protect himself with his hands.  He is only to blame."

None of that does a lick of convincing.  The "just how he was raised" one explains why he does it.  But none of these defends the fact that it was excessive and shouldn't be tolerated. Of course, again.  That's my opinion.

Simmion - You have hit the nail on the head! The issue of how he was raised explains why he does it, but does not excuse the fact that what he did was excessive. It is very hard to break the chain of violence when you were raised that way. You can break it though if you work at it hard. I have tried very hard to break that chain with my daughter and yet there are times when I can almost physically feel myself reverting back to the way I was brought up. My first reaction is to spank her when she disobeys me or disrespects me or my wife or any other authority figures, then I get ahold of myself and try to calm down before administering any type of punishment. In my family if you showed any disrespect there was hell to pay ranging from soap in the mouth for swearing to a spanking that was administered with anything from a yard stick to a leather razor strap or hog whip depending on the severity of what I did. I still think spanking is an acceptable method of discipline, but it should only be applied with the hand to the bottom and never more than a swat or 2 to get the childs attention. Once you have their attention the are many other more effective methods to punish a child. My daughter is a teen-ager now and I am proud to say that I have never hit her in any way and I never will! God knows there have been times when she has tested my patience and I'm sure there will be more in the future, but I now know that I can punish her more humanely but with even more effectiveness. For example, if I take her phone away from her now that is the worst possible thing that could happen to a teen-age girl. It also give me an opportunity to check up on her and what she is doing without her having a meltdown about me invading her privacy. Sorry for the long rant, but this issue hits home for me! I think we need to get AD some counseling to teach him more effective parenting skills and while we are at it we might want to teach him about birth control or to considering getting snipped. 7 kids with 5 different women is more than enough. Just my opinion.
min1 stl3

Offline kokomodan

  • Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 3519
  • Where the white women at?
Re: Congrats Zimmer
« Reply #69 on: September 18, 2014, 03:09:11 PM »
We can debate this until we are blue in the face. Every person's childhood and the thought of "Normal" is different. Do I believe AP abused his child?...NO!...Was it excessive?...Perhaps? I'm not familiar with what transpired...What we have going here is a judgment by a photograph. Not one of us know the circumstances involved. I'm not going to go into how many children with how many different baby mama's either. I don't really care, because it's NOT me.

What we have is a changing society. Discipline of children is a personal thing. Many times we discipline as we were disciplined. "The apple doesn't fall to far from the tree."...Not too many years ago people were married off at 12 or 13 years of age, and sometimes through and arranged marriage. How F&#KED up is that? I mean Jerry lee Lewis was married to his 13 year old cousin for Christ's sake!

What I really don't want is FOX, ESPN news, or some other outlet forcing this chit down our throats...AP has admitted he went too far. He is seeking help and that should be enough, in my opinion. Now if you believe after what happened to his child and equate abuse like that, I believe you'd be sorrowfully mistaken...

I was disciplined in much the same manner as this. Grandpa's rule was. "the switch had to be bigger than my pinky and as long as your arm, and you better not let me pick it out." My dad on the other hand used the belt. While mom used whatever she had nearby. Usually I deserved what I got...

I wondered how long until there would be a National Enquirer type mentality in sports and now it's here. Knocking your wife or girlfriend out is one thing, but trying to mold your children the way you were brought up is certainly another...The sponsors were probably looking for a way out in the 1st place and this is an opportunity to jump ship and save face...The NFL and the Ravens did the very same thing after Ray Rice informed them that he knocked her out. The video was icing on the cake, or the coup de gras...Let the one's without sin cast the 1st stone. Yeah, I'm still waiting for those people!
« Last Edit: September 18, 2014, 03:11:19 PM by kokomodan »
min1          stl3          indiana1

Offline Simmion

  • Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 2518
Re: Congrats Zimmer
« Reply #70 on: September 18, 2014, 07:30:31 PM »
I had a feeling we'd hear the other side soon. And believe me. I respect the opinion.  Just won't agree to it. But I also won't be able to relate since I didn't grow up in the same style. So, Koko.  I hope I don't offend.

Quote
Every person's childhood and the thought of "Normal" is different.

Agreed

Quote
Do I believe AP abused his child?...NO!...Was it excessive?...Perhaps?

I do think it was abuse, in the name of discipline because of exactly what was reported and that AP said. "Yeah, that's what happened." Did he know the general public (for the most part) would consider he went too far?  No, because he was raised that way.  But I don't like that excuse as why it's OK when the kid was bleeding for a simple of thing of pushing someone away from a video game controller so he can play instead,    Of course you discipline him, but I would just take him away from the game and give a stern talking to (OK, I have also heard that's why no one respects anyone anymore but I won't rant about that because I have heard that excuse too many times I want to scream.  I am the millennial common man everyone thinks is a spoiled brat), I have to explain to my 3 year old why it's important to share and she gets it.

I can continue down the path of where I rate a certain discipline method, but I will just leave it at what I just said for that situation.    Now I know the main part of my opinion comes from me being spanked at worst on many occasions.  You grew up just fine after enduring what you posted. But I grew up very respectful of others being only open handed spanked.  So I guess what it comes down to, for me.  Is it necessary to go that far?  Stuffing leaves in his mouth and whipping him that many times?  Drawing the blood.  I just don't think so even if it is a "personal choice of parents" .

Alright I wanted to do this earlier.  But the Saints haven't exactly been glorious this year.  They are at home.  27-20 Saints.  However, that is based on Drew Brees facing the Vikings Lame Tampa Two. 

Think about this.  The Vikings gave up basically 16 points against the Pats.  (7 points was a 1 yard drive, the other was a blocked FG).  If this team can eliminate the mistakes AND THE GD FALL STARTS!!!!  I think they can win.  But I still feel they will be the losing squad being on the road.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2014, 07:32:49 PM by Simmion »
You know, I've personally flown over 194 missions and I was shot down every one.  Heh, come to think of it.  I've never landed a plane in my life.

Offline Simmion

  • Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 2518
Re: Congrats Zimmer
« Reply #71 on: September 18, 2014, 08:08:17 PM »
Well this appeared to "end the subject" with me changing the subject and all.  I didn't intend that, Koko.  Rebuttal by all means.  But I did want to talk about the game and....

It's about time they released Simpson.  We never used 5 wide before (Rodney Smith) and Jerome Simpson wouldn't have factored anymore than Theilen in our games, and now we can potentially sign a legit RB instead of Banyard, but maybe he deserves his time to prove himself.
You know, I've personally flown over 194 missions and I was shot down every one.  Heh, come to think of it.  I've never landed a plane in my life.

Offline Hutch

  • Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 1635
  • I'm over Harvin now that we have Diggs
Re: Congrats Zimmer
« Reply #72 on: September 18, 2014, 09:50:31 PM »
I respect your opinion Koko but man do I totally disagree. The biggest thing I disagree with is parents think the own the child and it gives them right to do things as they see fit and that is dead wrong. I grew up when my dad rarely talked to me and when I did hear from him he was usually yelling or using my hot wheels track as a belt. I have 2 kids that are older and I have never put a hand on them. They understand violence is wrong and is never the answer for anything. You communicate, you have time outs, you deal with little kids with temper tantrums as they are learning to deal with their emotions. Im not saying you have to agree with me and if Peterson had given his child a tap on the bum or hand I could probably live with that. If I saw an adult stuffing leaves in a 4 years mouth and whipping him with a stick I'd kill the bastard. There is no justification what so ever for what Peterson did to that child....none.

Offline Hutch

  • Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 1635
  • I'm over Harvin now that we have Diggs
Re: Congrats Zimmer
« Reply #73 on: September 18, 2014, 09:53:26 PM »
Regarding Simpson.....what an idiot. This is going to be a trying year for the \Vikings and a numbers of teams. I hear next years draft could have a very talented RB....just saying

Offline kokomodan

  • Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 3519
  • Where the white women at?
Re: Congrats Zimmer
« Reply #74 on: September 19, 2014, 07:05:14 AM »
I had a feeling we'd hear the other side soon. And believe me. I respect the opinion.  Just won't agree to it. But I also won't be able to relate since I didn't grow up in the same style. So, Koko.  I hope I don't offend.


No worries buddy!...Everyone has an opinion on this and I respect yours, yours also Hutch...
min1          stl3          indiana1

 


* Vikings Shoutbox

Sorry, this shoutbox does not exist.