Author Topic: Foggy Thoughts  (Read 33322 times)

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Offline 44Diesels

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Re: Foggy Thoughts
« Reply #50 on: October 04, 2012, 09:06:43 PM »
Hey 44....

I'm eating tacos over at the neighbors...yum yum
Man that sounds good Fog ! Take some seltzer !
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Offline Fog

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Re: Foggy Thoughts
« Reply #51 on: October 04, 2012, 09:10:21 PM »
Beer too....
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Offline 44Diesels

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Re: Foggy Thoughts
« Reply #52 on: October 04, 2012, 09:11:03 PM »
Beer too....
You can't beat that ..let me guess....Corona ???
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Offline Fog

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Re: Foggy Thoughts
« Reply #53 on: October 04, 2012, 09:23:20 PM »
Quote
You believe in the rights of State over Federal

Yes....

Allow the states and even counties or cities to put forth programs...

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Offline Fog

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Re: Foggy Thoughts
« Reply #54 on: October 04, 2012, 09:23:52 PM »
You can't beat that ..let me guess....Corona ???

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Offline DimWit

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Re: Foggy Thoughts
« Reply #55 on: October 05, 2012, 02:04:43 AM »
Fog...  Savings and Debt can coexist quite nicely.  You CAN Save AND Borrow simultaneously.  If you have a home mortgage AND a reasonable Savings Account and/or Investments, you are doing exactly that.


As for Which Prez candidate I'd trust more to handle economic issues?

Well ... the question that you asked is vague.  I'll make an attempt to restate the Debt/Deficit/Savings/Budget question at another time. 
Let's just look a the simple "Trust" issue first.


And ...  allow me to ask YOU ... "WHICH of Willard's Moving Target Promises do YOU Trust Willard to Keep?"


You'd have start by picking and choosing among the many positions that Willard has taken on both sides of countless issues to start with ... and then maybe take a look at what are clearly lies or attempts to willfully mislead.


First ... A short bit about Willard's business and pre-political "honesty" background for starters.

2002 Olympics: 

Willard and his backers love taking credit for saving the Utah Olympics.  They CLAIM that they did it by bringing in "Private Money".  The FACT IS ... The FEDERAL GOVERNMENT (ie. TAXPAYER MONEY) bailed out those Olympics!

Yup ... The DuhBya Administration spent $1.3 BILLION in Taxpayer dollars to keep the 2002 Games afloat.  That's more than DOUBLE the Federal ASSistance spent on ANY OTHER Games!

IF we had Romney's Tax Info from that period, we'd have an idea about how many Taxpayers' Dollar$ found their way into Willard's and Bain's pockets.  Willard doesn't want us to get even a glimpse of that.  Trust?


Bain and "Job Creation":

Bain and Willard weren't about creating American Jobs as hard as they so desparately to imply.  That's disingenuous and willfully misleading.  They were ALL about Profit$ ... and there's NUTHIN' wrong with that (as long as they're not DisHONEST about it).

Here's part of what they were REALLY about.  They are/were like guys who buy cars dirt cheap from distressed sellers who unexpectedly lost a job due to a poor economy, then turn them/Flip them for a quick Profit.  They are NOT committed to keeping those cars running on American Roads.  They ARE committed to turning a profit. 

Sometimes they could invest a little money to fix mechanical or cosmetic issues, then flip them for a quick profit. Maybe running on an American Road ... but FREQUENTLY on a Foreign Road.   That DID keep some of those cars on the American Road (but that was NEVER their Goal).

More often than not, Willard-Bain dismantled/stripped the cars and sold the individual parts for profits, and sold whatever remained as scrap.  They did NOT care who they sold the Valuable Parts to (China, Japan, whoever).  Those Valuable Parts that were sold to Foreign Interests kept Foreign cars running on Foreign Roads ... bolstering Foreign Economies and Tax Bases.


There are MANY other Willard-Bain issues ... like Offshore Tax Dodges, outsourcing of jobs to Foreign countries for Tax and Labour Benefits, etc ... but you get the picture.  Let's turn to Trust.

Trust:

How do you Trust a guy who flip-flops like a freshly caught Asian carp in the bottom of a small boat?

Willard was For Pro-Choice before he was Against it ... and is now somewhere in between. 

Willard was For Gay Rights (including in the military) before he was Against it ... and is now somewhere in between.  Willard goes both ways! penguin

Willard was For "Universal" Health Care before he was Against it ... and is now somewhere in between. 

... Just weeks ago (and throughout his nomination campaign) he was VOWING to repeal ALL of "Obama Care" ... and, just within the last couple weeks, he has Flip-Flopped and currently* (*subject to change without notice) vows to KEEP certain ObamaCare provisions ... like the Pre-existing Conditions provision.  Nevermind that Willard could NOT sustain that WITHOUT the Critical Mandate Provision.  Trust?   

Yet even then, within just the last couple days, he currently* claims that he ONLY supports the Pre-Existing aspect for those who ALREADY HAVE ONGOING Health Care Insurance.  The MILLIONs of New Insurees who will be getting Insurance through ObamaCare (or by any other means) would NOT qualify!  NOR would those who lose insurance AT ANY TIME, for ANY REASON Qualify!  And ... puhlEEZe forget that almost ALL who have "ongoing" insurance, are NOT covered for Pre-Existing Conditions.  PONDER THAT!!!

Sooo ... What is there to TRUST IN?!

IF you happen to CHOOSE to Trust that Willard would Totally Abolish ObamaCare AND Maintain Medicare, then it might be wise to understand what that actually means. 

... What it would mean, in part, would be that Medicare recipient’s out-of-pocket care expenses would increase $577 a year on average by 2022 (under Obama's Plan, they would DECREASE).  Worse yet, Willards Plan would render Medicare INSOLVENT just Four Years from now!  NO MORE MEDICARE, at ANY Cost, within FOUR YEARS!!! 

...  The Drain on The Economy would be BRUTAL!  Trust?!


Wanna believe in Willard's most recent* Tax Reduction "Plan" to reduce ALL individual Taxes by 20%?  That's a LOSS of almost $5 TRILLION in Tax Revenues over the next decade.  How is THAT prudent fiscal policy?!

Of course, during the debate, Willard repeatedly DENIED that he ever offered a Tax Plan that slashes Tax Revenues by $5 Trillion ... a FLAT OUT LIE!

Now understand .. SINCE the debate, Willard has offered some phoney-baloney brand new* "plan" to PAY for the $5 Trillion ... by Capping Tax Deductions at $17,000 per filer.  He had CLAIMED in the debate that Middle Class taxes would NOT increase under his "Plan*" (whatever that is) ... but Cappin' as he described WOULD INCREASE the Tax Liabilities on a LARGE part of the Middle Class!  Trust?!


Still up in the air* is whether Willard's 20% Across the Board Tax Reductions would INCLUDE Capital Gains.  If it does, the Long Term Capital Gains would be reduced from 15% to 12% ... eliminating hundreds of BILLION$ MORE in Tax Revenues. 

How does Willard CLAIM that that loss of Revenue would be recovered?  Well ... he CLAIMS that the CapGains reduction would spur investment, and thus spur The Economy (he doesn't tell us whether he means the U.S. economy, or China's) and more than pay for the HUGE revenue loss.  The PROBLEM is that there is NO EVIDENCE to support the CLAIM that reducing CapGains spurs the economy. ZERO.

CapGains Reductions Spur?  Let's take a look.

Reagan Reduced CapGains from 28% to 20% within months of his election and the economy remained in the doldrums through his entire first term (similar to Obama's inheritence). 

...  Reagan then INCREASED CapGains from 20% to 28% near the beginning of his second term, and the economy suddenly grew BEAUTIFULLY! 

Clinton Lowered Cap gains to 20% 6 years into his presidency, in a thriving economy, and the economic impact was NOT definable.

DuhBya Decreased the CapGains from 20% to 15% during his second year in office afetr inheriting the STRONG Clinton Economy and Budget Surpluses for as far as the eye could see ... and The Economy DECLINED steadily, and then CRASHED at the End of his term.


How much TRUST can you have in Willard when, in the debate, he CLAIMED that Obama "doubled the deficit"?  That's a LIE!!!

...  The truth is THIS (from NYT):

"When Mr. Obama took office in January 2009, the Congressional Budget Office had already projected that the deficit for fiscal year 2009, which ended Sept. 30 of that year, would be $1.2 trillion. (It ended up as $1.4 trillion.  For fiscal year 2012, which ended last week, the deficit is expected to be $1.1 trillion — just under the level in the year he was inaugurated."

... back to Me.  That is a REDUCTION in the Deficit during Obama's term in office! Trust Willard?  C'mon!

More importantly, Obama, DESPITE the Economic DEVASTATION that he Inherited, has REDUCED the CRITICAL share of Deficit as a percent of the Economy ... from 10.1 percent of the economy’s total output in 2009 to 7.3 percent for 2012.  THAT IS A HUGE Accomplishment and it CLEARLY shows Willard's Debate claims are BALDFACED LIES!  Trust Willard?


How much TRUST can you have in Willard when, in the debate, he CLAIMED that HALF of the almost three dozen companies invested in by Obama's green energy stimulus program have "gone out of business" when just THREE have gone into bankruptcy, but NOT out of business?!  Another BALDFACED LIE!  Trust Willard?



I could go on and on with Willard's Flip-Flop-Flips*, Political Lies, Willful Distortions, etc ... but you get the drift.


I'll ask again ...  "WHICH of Willard's Moving Target Promises do YOU Trust Willard to Keep?"


...Dim
« Last Edit: October 05, 2012, 02:48:24 AM by DimWit »

Offline Peter Gozintite

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Re: Foggy Thoughts
« Reply #56 on: October 05, 2012, 02:08:16 AM »
Would you like to quote your sources?
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Offline DimWit

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Re: Foggy Thoughts
« Reply #57 on: October 05, 2012, 03:51:22 AM »
There are still TRILLION$ in CapGains tax reductions since DuhBya's Gift to the Filthy Rich SITTING ON THE SIDELINES ... or being invested elsewhere.  A HUGE chunk of the windfalls/gifts have gone Offshore to Tax Havens, or supporting China's and other Third and even Fourth  World Foreign Economies.


Certainly, a LOT of that failure to re-invest in the U.S. Economy CAN be attributed to The USA's sluggish economy ... AND, more importantly, to Uncertainty.  BUT ... that UNCERTAINTY and Sluggishness was Artificially CREATED by those who's ONLY GOAL was to get The Kenyan OUT of the WHITE House Woodpile that he has been HIDING in since he was elected.

Uncertainty?

The HardRightWing and TeaBaggers outright REFUSED to HONOUR The U.S. Government's PROMISE to Pay their already incurred Debt
.  They LOWERED the USA Credit Rating ... costing countless BILLION$ in ADDITIONAL Interest Related Debt.  They JOYOUSLY cut off Uncle Sam's Nose to SPITE The Kenyan in the woodpile.  penguin

...  They SELFISHLY DESTROYED The USA's Fiscal Credibility and HONOUR ... in a self-destructive, SUICIDAL attempt to flush That damn Kenyan out of the woodpile.  PONDER THAT!!!

Seriously ponder that.  These American Taliban and Economic Terrorists ... suicide bombers ...  are WILLING to KILL Themselves and DESTROY their OWN families and Communities in an effort to Force EVERYONE to Conform to their IGNORANT, tin foil hat, Ideological Doctrine. 

Now ... Thanks to the IGNORANT Teabaggin' Woodpile Militia Taliban Terrorists ... we are just WEEKS AWAY from National Economic SUICIDE!  THAT is UNCERTAINTY ... and a MASSIVE Drag in ANY Economy! 

THAT is why we have hundreds and HUNDREDS of Billion$ in Private and Corporate A$$ET$ on the sidelines, or seeking refuge in more STABLE Third and worse World environments.


Trust Willard and his simpleminded Teabaggin' brethren?  Are you SERIOUS?!!!


...Dim
« Last Edit: October 05, 2012, 04:01:14 AM by DimWit »

Offline DimWit

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Re: Foggy Thoughts
« Reply #58 on: October 05, 2012, 04:12:26 AM »
WellLOOBedGapingOrifice queried:


"Would you like to quote your sources?"


 ... I covered a LOT of ground.  If ya wanna get SPECIFIC in a constructive manner (as opposed to a Troll-like manner), I'll SINCERELY try to oblige.


...Dim

Offline ozpackerfan

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Re: Foggy Thoughts
« Reply #59 on: October 05, 2012, 04:36:27 AM »
Wow. That's a lot of info.

I don't get to place a bet in this horse race (although I can make an argument that I should since I'm a citizen of the free world that America purports to lead   lol) but I know who I want to win.

I get that "Willard" is Romney but what is the meaning of the nickname...?

Offline DimWit

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Re: Foggy Thoughts
« Reply #60 on: October 05, 2012, 05:25:57 AM »
OZ... "Mitt" is Willard Romney's nickname.  "Willard" is his Given, but almost unknown (hidden) name.


...Dim

Offline DimWit

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Re: Foggy Thoughts
« Reply #61 on: October 05, 2012, 05:34:49 AM »
OZ... Forgive me.  I misunderstood your question.  "Mitt" is Willard's middle name.  I do NOT know from wence "Mitt" was derived.  What I DO know is that "Mitt's" given name is Willard ... and he runs like a flamboyant tranny whore from his Willard moniker.


...Dim ... GOOOoooOOOO Geelong!!!
« Last Edit: October 05, 2012, 05:40:03 AM by DimWit »

Offline ozpackerfan

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Re: Foggy Thoughts
« Reply #62 on: October 05, 2012, 05:44:37 AM »
Gotcha



Geelong? Really? Boy did you just lose credibillity...    rofl

Offline DimWit

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Re: Foggy Thoughts
« Reply #63 on: October 05, 2012, 06:02:54 AM »
OZ...

... Hey!  I phukkin' grew up in Geelong  and waterskiied the Barwon River during  the Douggie Wade, Polly Farmer, Billy Goggin, and Alister Era.  I phukkin' LOVE me Cats!!!  And we set our pet roo  loose at Anglesea Golf Club when "Yummpin' Yimminy" began regularly leaping our 6-foot fence to visit with the schoolkids down the road.


...Dim

Offline ozpackerfan

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Re: Foggy Thoughts
« Reply #64 on: October 05, 2012, 06:20:42 AM »
That's cool Dim. What were you doing Downunder? I assume your dad was working here...

Seriously, I don't mind Geelong. They've been the team to beat for the last 5 or 6 years and I'll take them over the Melbourne clubs any day.

Offline HowdyYall

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Re: Foggy Thoughts
« Reply #65 on: October 05, 2012, 09:00:02 AM »
After a few attempts at absorbing all that Dim made as points agains Romney..it wouldn't take but a few to know exactly what Obama is:
Transparency..HELLO!
First Executive Order in taking office..hide my records!
2,000+ pages known as ObamaCare pushed thru the legislature which have less to do with healthcare than more government controls..worse part is most of those will go into effect after this election!
Talk about cost of the Olympics..fail to mention the cost of Soylandra..convenient memory is such an asset!
Almost 4 years in office and the best his liberal socialistic friends can do is still blame Bush..ask for details from Romney on plans yet they signed a bill that wasn't even completed called ObamaCare..and this administration should really be called Czardom!

Of course many of us probably haven't had the time or inclination to read "rules for radicals", attend Rev Wright's sermons, party with Bill Ayers, do a few real estate deals with Tony Rezko and then to top that all off even though as President of the most powerful country in the world we can only do what Valerie Jarrett says is ok!
2 main thangs to live'n..yo're gitalong and gittyUP..the rest is just window dress'n!

Offline Peter Gozintite

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Re: Foggy Thoughts
« Reply #66 on: October 05, 2012, 09:59:59 AM »
WellLOOBedGapingOrifice queried:


"Would you like to quote your sources?"


 ... I covered a LOT of ground.  If ya wanna get SPECIFIC in a constructive manner (as opposed to a Troll-like manner), I'll SINCERELY try to oblige.


...Dim
No i like the troll way, thanks anyway.
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Offline Love fore golf

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Re: Foggy Thoughts
« Reply #67 on: October 05, 2012, 11:10:42 AM »
Howdy,  That debate with Romney put it out for all to see..and top Dems saw/said why didn't Obama stand up to things Romney talked about, bring up about 47, etc.  If they didn't have their heads stuck up..., they would realize Obama can't think on his own, can't come up with KEY points UNLESS he has that teleprompter reading off to him what someone else has thought up for him to say.  Romney didn't need a prompter, he knew what to say and ask immediately.

Offline dgmichel

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Re: Foggy Thoughts
« Reply #68 on: October 05, 2012, 02:34:33 PM »
Obama appears to be:

* a person without that desire to win

* like a tired sports veteran out of shape and not prepared

* a one and done kinda guy

* a person having excelled in common verbal pauses so he can think of something to say

* avoiding truth

* well versed in the great health care strides of the Cleveland Clinic

* the next ex-president

Offline cher

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Re: Foggy Thoughts
« Reply #69 on: October 05, 2012, 03:38:33 PM »
If yall think "SPIN" isn't going both ways you're all nutz.  Trying to wade through spin is an infinite endeavor.  Compared to FOX and MSNBC I find that CNN has the most balanced election/campaign coverage.  FOX and MSNBC don't even attempt to hide it even though FOX motto is "fair and ballanced".  Sure. 

As an independent who abhors the thought of choosing a party line to follow rather than making decisions issue by issue or person by person...I have been demonized from both sides when I point out lack of objectivity or where and when something is getting spun. 

Does anyone really believe there is a "WAR on women" from the right?  Does anyone believe that being pro women's choice means that you are pro (favor) abortion (killing babies)?  Does anyone believe that Obama thinks that people who built a business really didn't build it?  Does anyone believe that Romney ACTUALLY thinks that all 47% are moochers?  Does anyone believe that requiring government funded (or partially funded) organizations to supply birth control is a "WAR on religion"?  Does anyone believe that the right like dirty air and water?  Does anyone believe that the left likes to provide welfare to able bodied but lazy bilkers of the system? 

I don't have a lot of respect for people who do the spinning (intentionally) and I have a similar problem with people who choose to ignore it for the sake of the "ends justifying the means".

Offline cher

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Re: Foggy Thoughts
« Reply #70 on: October 05, 2012, 04:00:46 PM »
Let's just take the idea of "redistributing the wealth".  Even Obama has used the term but I'm not sure he's referring to the Robin Hood scenario where we ACTUALLY steal from the rich and give it straight to the poor.  In any scenario where taxes are increased on (let's say) rich folks...those tax dollars go into the budget for all programs...not just to be given to the poor folks.  It goes to education, defense, welfare, etc.  Yes, the poor will get more of a benefit...but this is not a Robin Hood direct redistribution of wealth.

The same can be said in reverse.  Letting billionaires keep more of their money doesn't mean you have the mentality of rich getting richer.  If you feel that those billionaires created more jobs or pay higher wages when they have more money it can theoretically help everyone.

In either case someone has more expendable income and can potentially bump the economy.  It is ONLY a fundamental difference in what people think will spur the economy.  If it were plainly obvious that one were better than the other...it wouldn't be an issue.  If we all knew if a mother's rights or an unborn fetuses rights were the most important...it wouldn't be an issue.  Issues that are divided close to 50-50 means to me (often) that the truth probably lies in the middle.

Offline 44Diesels

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Re: Foggy Thoughts
« Reply #71 on: October 05, 2012, 04:12:50 PM »
Well put Cher. It has always been the Republicans stance that less taxing too the rich has and will create more jobs. I personally rather see the results rather than the argument. grin1
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Offline cher

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Re: Foggy Thoughts
« Reply #72 on: October 05, 2012, 04:26:45 PM »
Here is another interesting topic.  "Fair share" in terms of taxes.  What is fair?  Flat?  Incrimental?  How much?  Who decides?

Everyone gets their panties in a bunch when taxes are increased...but there was a time when taxes were higher.  So what tax % is and was the "right" %?  Should people be happy that taxes are less than they once were even if we have to incur a tax hike?  Should we be upset that they aren't at a historical low?  Most people like when their taxes are decreased because it's tangible.  But is it always best?  IMO the appropriate amount of taxes is the rate (or rates) that does the overall good for the economy.  Since nobody can prove what that is...we have two parties and people who love to spin outcomes.

Offline cher

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Re: Foggy Thoughts
« Reply #73 on: October 05, 2012, 04:32:55 PM »
thanks to both of you for the comps. 

That's a hillarious pic!  I think third from left is Jon Lovitz.  "Yah...that's the ticket"

Offline 44Diesels

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Re: Foggy Thoughts
« Reply #74 on: October 05, 2012, 04:36:42 PM »
cher, i am suspicious of u. u make way too much sense, you're obviously up to something  ;)

and, while i cast a total of at least 4 votes for president for people in this picture (not sure who the 3rd from the left is), i still love this:


haha1   That is too funny !   
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